tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15602189.post3517047255673801238..comments2023-09-21T16:17:51.838+05:30Comments on Law and Other Things: Reading James Laine: Allegations and RealityAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09348738084817273397noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15602189.post-90486085421757639822008-03-05T02:42:00.000+05:302008-03-05T02:42:00.000+05:30Dear "ot",I just realized that I probably did not ...Dear "ot",<BR/><BR/>I just realized that I probably did not address your first question about Laine’s use of the term caste-<I>dharma</I> as against <I>varnashrama dharma</I> which, as I understand, is what you think is more likely. I assume that the translation has been done diligently but even if it is <I>varna</I> instead of caste, all else remaining same, the tag of ‘brahmanism’ would not be affected.Dilip Raohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18294894305584371011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15602189.post-11689015600994824942008-03-05T00:28:00.000+05:302008-03-05T00:28:00.000+05:30Dear "ot",Thanks for your comment.Firstly, the wor...Dear "ot",<BR/>Thanks for your comment.<BR/>Firstly, the word <EM>dharma</EM> is often used in the sense of ‘duty’ which is what I think it means here when used with ‘caste’ – in the Hindu scriptures, protection of Brahmins is enjoined upon other castes, particularly <EM>kshatriyas,</EM>as a religious duty. Though I have not read the original non-English version, I have no reason to suspect any agenda on Laine’s behalf in stating so. Secondly, the <EM>significance</EM> of caste in political terms may be different today (‘loaded’ as you call it) but I do not believe the meaning of the term itself has changed at all – it still refers to an endogamous class of people bound by ties of their traditional occupation.<BR/><BR/>Thirdly, Gandhiji played two prominent roles, one as a political leader leading the independence movement and the other as a social reformer fighting untouchability. Whatever one thinks of his social views, I do not believe it taints his leadership of the independence struggle.<BR/><BR/>Gandhiji, as you point out, did believe in protecting cows and the <EM>varnashrama dharma </EM>but he did not approve of the hierarchy of varnas/jaatis or of any step that might abolish those distinctions (such as marriage between them) or even of abolition of that system as a goal of social reform. So, I would say that Gandhiji believed in reforming the brahminical order, not in abolishing it (which is where he differed from Ambedkar and others). So, to answer your question, yes, he did believe in the brahmanical order but not in the form that it existed at that time.<BR/><BR/>Though Laine makes occasional comments without substantiation (such as the rarity of coerced religious conversions for which he offers no support either way), the evidence he presents generally supports the inferences he draws. For that reason, I would respectfully disagree. I believe that he has a good understanding of Indian society and conducted his inquiry as an independent and impartial exercise.Dilip Raohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18294894305584371011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15602189.post-62984551797612245092008-03-04T21:08:00.000+05:302008-03-04T21:08:00.000+05:30Mr Dilip wrote:"If one reads his quotation from Pa...Mr Dilip wrote:<BR/><BR/>"If one reads his quotation from Paramanda’s Sivabharata which preceded this sentence (click here to read the relevant paragraphs), his brahmanical prejudices are plainly evident – the evil-Muslim-versus-good-caste-cow-and-brahmin-loving-Hindu theme looks very much like a 17th century version of the VHP playbook."<BR/><BR/>Not unless the quotation is read with 21st century political preferences and prejudices. For instance, in the translation of Paramanda, Laine uses the hyphenated word, 'caste-dharma'. Why the conjoining of the English 'caste' with Sanskrit 'dharma'? So that the result supports the caste-cow-brahmin theory that Laine is hinting at? "Caste" today is a very loaded word -- what was it in Paramananda's original? Moreover, the last stanza seems a paraphrasing (perhaps even a direct quotation) of Bhagavad Gita: did Laine get the translation right? Is he attributing quotes by Praramanda of Hindu scriptures to Paramanda himself?<BR/><BR/>Gandhi belived in cow protection too, and believed in varnashrama-dharma (not "caste-dharma") as well. Does that make his independence struggle a quest for the restoration of "brahmanical order"? <BR/><BR/>I do not attribute any mala fides to Laine, and I also believe that the honourable judges erred in asking him to delete the afore-mentioned passages. (Pratap Bhanu Mehta has an excellent article on this issue in Indian Express today.) However, I do suspect Laine applied his own skewed and conditioned understanding of India and Hinduism to his book on Shivaji, rather than a truly open-mided, ideology-free exploration of his life and times.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15602189.post-4697612315917853312008-03-04T13:32:00.000+05:302008-03-04T13:32:00.000+05:30Dear Dilip, Good post! I'm equally inspired to rea...Dear Dilip, <BR/>Good post! I'm equally inspired to read the book. I wish Justice Pasayat read it before suggesting those deletions to the author.V.Venkatesanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08138846925562952785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15602189.post-51150515444266769152008-03-04T13:29:00.000+05:302008-03-04T13:29:00.000+05:30This comment has been removed by the author.V.Venkatesanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08138846925562952785noreply@blogger.com